Episode 12: Surprises, Ancestors, Numbers & Masks in our Dreams (a conversation with Billie Ortiz)

Surprises Ancestors Numbers and Masks in Our Dreams a conversation with Billie Ortiz The Dreamers Den Podcast with Leilani Navar thedreamersden.org

Click “Play” above, or listen on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or Stitcher.

Can you think of a dream in which you felt surprised or confused? I love Billie Ortiz’s insight that this can signal movement into unfamiliar territory.

Another gem from Billie is her observation that ancestors frequently show up in dreams as “a large group of people, and I know they’re there to see me, but I don’t recognize them.”

Click Play above to hear our whole conversation right away – or read on to learn more about Billie and what we talk about in this episode.

Billie Ortiz is certified as a dreamworker through Dr. Jeremy Taylor’s Marin Institute for Projective Dreamwork. She’s been facilitating dream groups, workshops and retreats for over two decades. Billie is well-versed in the realm of myth and fairy tale as well. She’ll often help a dreamer find the archetypal messages in their dreams.

I’ve frequently heard Billie preface a poignant comment with, “Jeremy used to say…” Well, she would know what Jeremy Taylor used to say, having co-facilitated 27 retreats with him between 2003 and 2015. Billie has also presented workshops for the International Association for the Study of Dreams, Sage-ing International and Boulder Friends of Jung.

In this conversation, we talk about:

  • her early days facilitating dream groups over a distance using a telephone bridge line – a throwback to the days way before Zoom
  • this “collective waking dream” we’re all in, including social distancing, mask-wearing, and the Black Lives Matter movement. (We recorded this a few weeks ago, so this part may feel like a a throwback too. To the days way back… last month)
  • how our dreams vote for us to express ourselves creatively
  • combining tarot cards and numbers with dreamwork
  • and the ancestral layer in dreams.

Once you listen, I’d love to hear from you.

Have you worked with tarot cards and dreams?

Have you had any dreams about masks?

Leave a comment below, or post in The Dreamers’ Den free Facebook group.

Connect with Billie here: Wake Up to Your Dreams

The book I mention to Billie: It Didn’t Start with You: How Inherited Family Trauma Shapes Who We Are and How to End the Cycle, by Mark Wolynn


  1. Azima Lila Forest on October 18, 2020 at 7:17 pm

    I finally got to listening to this – what a wonderful conversation! I’ve had such engaging connection with each of you that that added to my enjoyment. About the Tarot, i have been bringing in the Tarot, the I Ching, and the Runes – sometimes the Angel cards – in my group dreamwork, but i never thought about the numerological aspect of that. What a great idea! Incorporating that from here on in…

    Much love, many blessings to you both – Azima

    • Leilani Navar on October 20, 2020 at 9:32 pm

      Thanks, Azima! Your dreamwork is already so rich, I love knowing that it’s expanding even more. Love and blessings to you.

  2. Billie Ortiz on December 6, 2020 at 10:12 pm

    Thanks for listening Azima! FYI, Leilani and I just recorded a “bonus audio’ about tarot and numbers in dreams. Stay tuned for my details 🙂 All in the name of Dream!

  3. […] Episode 12: Surprises, Ancestors, Numbers & Masks in Our Dreams (a conversation with Billie Orti… […]

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